SEND IN THE CLONES FANZINE
Interview w/ Stephen
By: Kalle Garmark

Give me some history to start with, I know you we're in reinforce but what about the other guys? What makes TFS different from your old bands?

What about your demo, did you get a lot of appreciation when that came out? Lot of shows?

What about now, from what I understand you don't live in N.C. anymore, does it still work out fine with the distances and all?

S: Yeah, I don't live in NC anymore. After I graduated college I lived for another six months in NC then moved to Boston. I really wanted to move somewhere, try something new and fresh but really had no solid plan. Then one day Sweet Pete called me up and was like "our roommate is moving out a few months early, do you want to take his place?". Since I didn't have a plan to go elsewhere I decided to take the chance and go to Boston. I love it up here, I needed a change at the time but honestly I miss being close to Aaron and Izzy. As far as TFS it's been hard because it's a major project to practice/play but it has made us closer in ways because we have to make a conscious effort to stay in touch and not having such close friends around makes you really appreciate talking to or seeing them. The same thing goes for the band. I find myself so excited to get together and practice or play because it's not as accessible as it was before plus where we all are in life, it's good to have the space from the band. I for one and the kind of person that would do the band all the time if I lived in the same town as those guys and I would probably let a lot of very important things slide to do this so having that distance gives me time/space to concentrate on things that I need to give my time to as well; work, graduate school, girlfriend, working out etc.

How did you end up on livewire? Did you know them before you were in TFS?

S: We didn't know Ed before we were in TFS. When we put out our demo Tim McMahon got our demo and talked to us about how much he liked it and put us in touch with Ed in hopes that we would do a record with him. I met up with Ed and talked to him at the Posi Numbers that Hands Tied did a reunion at and we talked a bit then. He got our demo and was wicked into it. It was great to have someone who really believed in you also be interested in putting out a record of yours. Livewire is/was so awesome too because we could grow with the label; it could help us and we could help it.

How come you broke up and got back together?

S: At the time that we broke up I had moved to Boston, we didn't have a bass player and we all kind of got the feeling like we were just "doing" the band. To clarify, we didn't feel insincere about what we stood for but when you are in a band a lot of times you just get caught up in "lets play here, lets play there etc." This is awesome when you are stoked and everyone is on the same page and really knows where the band is going but we weren't really at that point then. It felt like you were caught in a machine, in a sense, and that stopping or slowing the pace we were going would cause the band to break down. Something to though about the pace of the band is this: it's not just that you are playing shows all the time. We were playing a lot but it's more that thinking about, planning, talking about it just took up all of your time in the sense that when we weren't playing a show it was in our heads make us feel like we didn't have space from it. We look back now and see that space from the band was essential for us because taking time to think things over and do what really made sense with where we were in life was what made TFS an awesome band in the first place. We put thought in to it. We made sure that what we were doing was something we stood behind and all thought was appropriate. But at this point we just weren't doing that so we needed some time off from the band and that came in the form of us breaking up. There wasn't ever a plan to get back together but as the summer past and we did other things we still stayed in touch and would talk about the band every once in a while. I guess over time we all just really missed that band and each other. We also still talked about things we felt and believed and it became apparent that there was still a lot of things that we wanted to say as a band. Looking back, it was the best thing we ever did, taking time off. It refocused us and gave us the chance to look at the band while not being IN the band and learn and grow from what we did and didn't do.

Looking through old posts at the livewire message board regarding TFS it seemed you were very appreciated by the people who were into you but also overlooked by a lot of people since you're playing "old-school" hardcore.

Phrases that I came across were "you were one of the only bands playing sincere music that was actually 'about something'" and more lines like that. Do you agree with this? How does it make you feel? It seems to me that you're taking hardcore serious (i.e. it's more than music...) since you have lyrics about vegetarianism, about making the most of your life and so on.

S: I don't agree with this because I see a couple other bands that are about something and are very sincere about what they are doing. Two that come to mind are Damage Control and Our Turn. It kind of bums me out when I hear that because to me all hardcore bands are supposed to be "about something". Rather, something serious, worthwhile and positive. Not positive in attitude but a band that has something well thought out to say, something that they really believe and aren't saying for shock value and overall are a band with integrity and are really sincere about their reasons for doing a band. To us this is just the lowest common denominator. We hear that and think "well of course we are sincere about doing this band and what we have to say, isn't everyone"? And the answer is no they aren't. I do think that we are overlooked by a lot of people because people seem to live to pigeon hole bands these days so that they don't have to question themselves and don't allow the ideas of other people and bands to challenge them. If a band fits into one specific category then a person can just say, "Well I don't like that kind of hardcore", and the matter is over in their mind. This isn't something that happens just to TFS but to a lot of bands in the scene. But while some people have written us off, a lot of people have connected with what we are about and have in turn inspired us. That's something we always wanted; to connect with kids. To share something with them and all of us learn from each other. This attracted me to hardcore when I first got into it. It was a scene of blank slates and open minds and it seemed like a lot of people were learning and growing from bands and other kids around them. People seemed genuinely interested in making a difference in the world around them and in their own lives.

I was thinking about two lyrics on the seven-inch; maybe you'd like to talk about them (even though Stephen may have written them).

"Will it ever end?" This song makes me think about the American "war on terrorism". I may be way off but this is what comes to my mind. Especially with the line "Our reaction to violence is the same in return".

S:This song was written around the time of 9-11 and was 100% inspired by that horrific event and the climate in the US afterwards. Aaron and I got to talking about this, probably in December of 2001 about how depressing the outlook for relations between the US and Afghanistan or other aggressors were because it seemed like a cycle that just would never end. We kind of posed the question "will this violence, hatred and fighting just continues until there is nothing left?" We both felt like the course of action that was being pursed and championed, this "hit the bastards back" kind of mentality was not a solution what so ever. It was just a reaction to what came our way when it's the truth that violence will never stop violence. You can't beat the hatred and aggression out of people, that will never work. The only real solution is for someone, one side to put down their fists, guns whatever and NOT react and stop the cycle of violence. While this was inspired by something much more global, to us, the idea was also something that could be applied to person to person confrontations and how the principles of non-violence is the only way fighting will ever stop. It sounds so foreign, even to us sometimes, because striking back is so ingrained into our brains that it IS a hard cycle to break. But I do believe that the world would be a much more peaceful place if more people weren't concerned with being on top and not being "pushed around". I say this to myself as well, but sometimes we all need to think of the higher truth to a situation that we find ourselves in.

"When things fall apart" This has kind of a spiritual vibe to it and I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that you and Stephen are both Buddhists. If so, how has this changed your life? If it did that is…

When Things Fall Apart IS a very spiritual song and it has only gained meaning and rung true as time goes by. In simple terms it is based on the Buddhist idea that everything, in this case life, is not static but instead continues to change and evolve. While I think all of us know this or may say it causally, it is a very deep seeded truth that a lot of us, myself included, can find ourselves fighting from time to time. This song is really focusing on how when the ground we are standing on, everything we love and care about, crumbles what we do before and after that. It's a constant struggle to accept the fact that what we have will not last. It will change. Some people say Buddhist ideas like this are extremely negative but I completely disagree. To know that things will not last gives you a chance to gain insight into why we feel like we are trying so hard to hold on to a person, experience or time period and yet still getting no where. This shows us that we should just appreciate and value what we have when we have it. Something we all don't seem to do enough. The song also deals with making a fresh start, learning and growing, when your life does fall apart. This is point in your life is something we all face and is never easy but it's also a time where we can learn the most about ourselves and how to better lives our lives. These ideas are not my own by any means it is something I have learn through my practice of Buddhist meditation and reading of Buddhist texts. This has influenced my life more than anything else. It has changed the way I look at the world around me and how I live my life. It is much clearer to me what my life is worth and how I can use my life to benefit other people. I feel a greater sense of peace on the whole because I have (just a tiny) better understanding of why we all act and react the way we do.

I do consider you a "posi-band", it seem to me like you have a positive outlook on life but in IMPACT#2 you mention that "you are not on a posi or negi trip but that you want to sing about life 'as it is'". But you can sing about life "as it is" in many different ways, both with smiths-quotes and about appreciating things for what they are.

Oh sure you can sing about life and what you see in many different ways and from varying points of view. I guess that comment was touching on the fact that people will label us a posi band and just write us off from there. We really try our best to look at life as it is but to act and focus on the positive aspects of life. That can be something as simple as someone is hurt, dying or you have hit a rough spot in life the negative side of that is right in your face but the fact is focusing on that and letting it dominate your life will get you no where! Only learning from pain and hurt will make the situation worth something and is the only way we will ever move past something like that. Also looking at life "as it is" is about trying to see things for just what they are and not through one lens or another. Just a very straight up approach to life. But sure, that can expressed many ways and it's great seeing someone expressing a similar idea but doing it in a different way.

You always hear a lot of people say that writing is like therapy for them but on the other hand I remember Ronnie Little (when he was in rain on the parade) say once that "I don't want to write lyrics that bring people down, there are enough of other things to do that" (I'm not sure if that's what he said word for word.) What's it like for you? Do you talk about what you want the lyrics to deal with before you write them?

Yes. Aaron and I usually spend a lot of time fleshing out ideas for new songs. He will email or call with something he was thinking that would make a good song and I will do the same. He is a lot better at initial concepts and catchy song titles and I am a lot better at taking the ideas and making them a finished song. So you put us together and we complete the picture. I certainly consider us a positive band because that is what we wanted to be from the very beginning. We are, for the most part, very positive guys. I do want to sing about life as it is; talk about the hurt, pain and nasty stuff because that is part of a situation, experience or idea. But I've always set out to say "this is what is there but there is always a better, more positive, way to approach a situation no matter what it is. I feel like in our songs there is always an overarching positive feeling or message. Writing lyrics can be very therapeutic and very aggravating when they aren't coming out the way I envision them. But it is such a great feeling when you have something you want to convey to people and you are finally able to write it down in simple enough language so that anyone could pick it up and understand what you are saying. At the same time you have to make it work within a song structure and it has to sound better than 2^nd grade rhyming stories, so there is a great sense of accomplishment too. It's crazy sometimes for me to listen back to things I have written 3 or more years ago and still have them hit me hard and give me a little bit of insight into a current situation in my life. I don't really write lyrics for myself in a certain sense but it's funny how they end up coming back to me later on.

If you write a lyric everyone don't agree on would you still use it? Is it important that the band is 100% behind the content of the lyrics?

S: While I love the hardcore music, to me the lyrics and the message that a band is trying to convey is the most important thing. A band could have the best riffs ever written but if they aren't saying anything then to me it just falls way short. To us it is important that everyone is behind the lyrics I write. I am not just speaking for myself but the rest of the guys to, so we all have to be able to stand by everything I sing in all our songs.

How does the rest of the song-writing process work in TFS?

Aaron usually comes to us with riffs. Sometimes Izzy or I will say, we should do a part like this but Aaron seems to be constantly thinking of new songs and messing around with riffs. This wouldn't work if we didn't all share the same vision for the band. Very seldom will he come up with something that is off base from what we like and works for us.

On the demo you covered "more than fashion" what else do you cover?

S: We've cover quite a few songs, some staples have been Betray, Alone in a Crowd, Youth of Today (BDTW, YOT, Stabbed in the Back and FSB), Side By Side, Insted Live and Let Live and some others I know I am forgetting. We've always got ideas for more!

I don't know what it's like in the states but a not to wild guess is that bands of your kind isn't the most popular with the average hardcore kids, is it still all about GUTG and the wrist-slitting lyrics?

No, I wouldn't say so. The US hardcore scene seems to be driven but certain little pockets of kids and right now it seems to be Boston that really sets the tone for what is hyped up. Bands like Mental and Righteous Jams are pretty much the bands kids look to gauge what is the next "thing". I know those Boston kids didn't set out for it to be that way but kids always seem to look there for a trendy style or sound. Too bad because I think the best bands aren't from there.

When I spoke with Aaron earlier he mentioned that you hadn't done that many interviews yet you seem to a popular band, which conclusion do you draw from this?

Do you believe it will change after the LP?

Has it been better or worse since you got back together?

I don't know about this. We get a fair number of interviews but not an obscene amount. Maybe this means that the interview we have done have answered the questions kids have! Hahahaha! I'm not sure. I think once the LP comes out we will probably get some more that focus around that record and the lyrics on there, cause I think they are really awesome and I can speak from experience; if you like a band you usually want to hear more about why they wrote this song or that song.

What's your take on the current hardcore scene? You mentioned earlier that you thought the kids weren't as sincere as they used to be.

I'm assuming this is what Aaron said but to answer your questions there are a lot of things I don't like about the current hardcore scene and a lot of things I do. There are several bands that I am very stoked on that inspire me but I guess over time, getting a bit older you start to not just take every band on face value. I don't think people are less sincere than they used to be I just think it is easier to pick out people who are insincere and part of that is seeing the truth in people who you held in a high regard and realizing where they really stand. Overall though, it seems to me that there are a lot of people who just have a very skewed, backwards perception of what hardcore always seemed to be about. With this I really mean values. Maybe it's like I said before, just being aware of people more, but many, many people seem to not really care about the values and ethics that made hardcore and punk something special and an alternative to mainstream music. I can think of bands right now who take a real righteous stance towards things like straight edge and what not but when it comes down to it they don't really stand for much at all cause they won't stand up for those ideas and for other people who seem to share that with them. That is a bummer to see, people who talk about discipline, being strong etc. yet they really lack any sort of personal strength. But there are other bands and people who really do inspire me when I see them, people who really do personify what it means to be sincere, to listen and who make me miss them when we are apart. I'll admit there are fewer bands that I really enjoy these days I guess the longer you are in hardcore the more you need from a band to really hook you. Some bands that come to mind though are A Step Apart, Damage Control, Fired Up!, Broken Needle, The Defense and probably Soulcraft, even though I haven't heard them yet!

What is the biggest strength with The First Step? Weakness?

Whoa, awesome question. I think our biggest strength is that we have a very focused vision of what we want. Not a goal of bigger shows, tours etc. but of how we go about doing things, the vibe we want to create and how we present ourselves. When I say present ourselves I don't me in terms of fashion but more our lyrics, layouts, t-shirts and what we say on stage: do they reflect what we believe and are about?? I wouldn't call it perfectionists cause we aren't anal retentive about things but more that if we are going to do this we want to do it right and on OUR OWN TERMS. It's really easy when you are a band to go along at someone else's pace of playing shows, recording etc. and a lot of times people don't understand you if you say "we don't want to play with a certain band". They act like you are nuts. This band is an extension of us as people and a great show isn't just bands playing, it's the feeling that surrounds that show and a crowd and a band sharing something real. So we try our best to put a lot of thought into things that will increase the good vibe at a show or present our vision as it really is. While sometimes it makes things harder and they take more time we only have one shot at this so we're going to do it our way. A weakness with TFS is that we are all spread out and sometimes it makes it really hard to feel on the same page with the other guys or feel more like you just want to hang out than go play a show. Sometimes our desire to do this more and our inability to do it all the time, because of jobs etc., can make us individually get bummed or make us scheme up too many ideas. But actually in ways this results in a positive because we all usually express these feelings to each other and come away with a better understanding of where each other is. Plus not being able to do this all the time makes each of us appreciate it much more when we can!

Your music hasn't changed that much from the first demo until today and a lot of people claim that hardcore has to develop. What is "hardcore-development" to you? Do you have to be a metal/screamo band these days to get accepted by the kids?

That's true our music has stayed with a somewhat rigid formula. There is some room for change and development but not a whole lot! When people say development or progress they usually mean that the music has to change and be different than it was before. I agree and disagree with that. Music is expression and if you want to express yourself with fast thrashy songs or, the way Fugazi did it, start something very new and unique the choice is yours. I totally agree that something new and fresh is more appealing than something you've heard a million times before but I think the idea of "musical progression" is a trap to say the least. When people say this they usually mean playing something that is technically more difficult and intricate AND is often accompanied by lyrics that are obtuse and vague. To me, real lasting honest progression comes through in lyrics and the ideas and points of view are presented. When a person or a band is growing and progressing as people they see things differently than they did before, hopefully, with a clearer perspective and a wiser view. I don't care if a song is more difficult to play, sometimes that is interesting to listen to but often it is just ear candy unless it is backed up by lyrics of real substance. So really playing a new type or style of music isn't progression when a person's mindset is more or less the same as it always has been. It's easy to fool people with a new look or new sound but you can't really fake substance. Don't get me wrong there are all kinds of music that I love simply for the sound, the rhythm or vibe. But I guess I hold hardcore/punk/indie music and making music to a different standard. As far as metal/screamo I think this type of music is a lot easier to market to a larger audience as angry music. To me this doesn't really hold any appeal what so ever.

How did you get into hardcore? What are your favourite bands and which were the first bands you really got into?

I first got into hardcore via Minor Threat's 2 ep's on an LP record. I was in 9^th grade I believe and I went to a summer camp at the beach for a few weeks in the summer. My friend who I went with was into a lot of different music, he was especially into Fugazi. He had the tape version of that Minor Threat record and really didn't like it so I traded him some other tape and pretty much listened to it non-stop on my walkman for the rest of the summer and into the next year. I loved that record, still do. I lived in a military town, which is how Izzy and Aaron and I all came to be from different places but in the same place so there was actually a decent record store that sold punk, hardcore, metal etc. It was run by this dude, Nazi Bob. I don't know if he was a Nazi but he was always sketchy. I went in there after the summer and found YOT "Break Down the Walls" and Bold "Speak Out" and was really hooked on them. Aaron went to my high school and was in a band, Peaceful Non-Existence. If you can ever track down their EP "Crisis in Democracy" get it! It's ferocious! I started hanging out with him and their drummer and going to shows in town. That band really hit me hard because it was hardcore that I could go see and not just listen too. That's where it all started for me. Over the years I've grown to love so many bands and record but Insted is a band that really encompasses what I feel hardcore is really all about. I always loved there music but when I met those guys last year when they played their reunion shows I got a chance to have some real heart to hearts with all the guys in the band. What I admire so much about them is the fact that they really said their piece, what they believed in, broke up and didn't change that. They got married, had kids and took these ideals and ways of life and applied it to the next phase in their lives. They didn't try to hang onto the band as a way to validate their lives they really did what they loved and when it was over they missed it but moved ahead. And on top of that when I talked to them you just get a sense of how genuine and honest these guys are. I respect that and hope that is what I can be later in life. A lot of older bands didn't follow this path, like YOT, and I still love them but Insted more than any really made an impact on me. Go see them in Europe this summer!

Before you signed/decided to go with Livewire, there was talk about Youngblood Records right? What happened with that?

Yep. That's correct. We played a show with Running Like Theive, one of their first, and Joe from Youngblood was there. He and I have been friends for sometime and he was really into the demo and our presence live and was extremely excited to have an active band on Youngblood that would stick with the label. We were into it and said yes. About the same time we were kicking around the idea of playing California that summer and i got a call from Ed McKirdy. He had gotten a copy of the demo from a very excited Tim Mcmahon. At this point Livewire was not a great label. Ed had put out a couple things that, to his credit, he really believed in but they just hadn't caught on with other people. We told Ed our situation with Youngblood and he was really understanding and then offered to put out the demo on 7inch. We thought this would be totally cool; having a 7inch out on a label in California AND going out there to play. Ed was really cool and very excited. He picked us up from LAX, let us stay at his house for over a week, made us shirts, even played bass for us when our bassist had to leave. We had such a great time out there. To this day everyone in the band really looks at that time as one of the best things we ever did. It was our first time with really touring far away from our homes. At the end of the trip we were all talking after a show in Ojai with In Control and Diehard Youth and it came up "what about doing our 7inch with Ed"? What we all really expressed as far as a label was that we wanted someone who we could grow with, were friends with and seemed to share our vision. We were also just so impressed by how much Ed really stuck his neck out for us that we felt like he was the person we wanted doing our records. That's not to say that Youngblood didn't have some of the same qualities that we were looking for. If they had been in a similar situation as Ed then the story may have turn out a lot different. But we really felt like this is where our momentum was taking us and so i had to call up and tell Youngblood the news, which they were bummed about but understood. It's funny though cause there are ads out there for a TFS 7inch on Youngblood.

What were your expectations on the Euro tour? I mean, you've had to have some expectations, people must have told you something about your popularity over here and shows in general? Was anything like you expected it to be? Any show, moment that sticks out? I read your tour-report in Crucial Times and it sounded like you had an amazing time over here.

We really had a great time. That tour report in Crucial Times really came out well and that really expresses alot of stuff with the trip to Europe. But we really didn't know what to expect. We had heard that alot of kids didn't have our stuff over there which is why we did a European press. But then alot of kids had big expectations so we really jsut went over there hoping for the best and just focused on having a good time and exploring a new place. The country side itself was just so familiar and completely forgien all at the same time. The shows were really cool for the most part but i think the thing that was even better was sharing all of this with a bunch of good friends. That really made our trip to Europe something special. We've all talked about it and i've said it on stage many times but we just started this band because we wanted to express ourselves and have a band that where we could have fun doing this and so could our friends. Never in a million years did we think it would take us as far as it did. And who knows where we will go next! As for some especially awesome memories there were too many but our time in Norway was one of the best on tour. We were very tired from the constant shows and long, hot drives but when we got to Norway it was sort of like coming home. We've got such a deep connection with the Damage Control guys that it was like being at your brother's house: while it's not your home you feel welcome and at home becaues of the company. The show in Kongsberg was awesome, lots of kids, very packed in and very little room to move but it had a very urgent vibe to it. Earlier that day Eric Anarchy took us to the cliffs where the photo from the Sportswear 7" was taken. I didn't expect the water to be so nice and the weather so warm. All in all we really had one of the best times of our lives.

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